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	<title>Comments on: Petal Velomobile by Eric Birkhauser</title>
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	<description>The blog about industrial design in the bike industry</description>
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		<title>By: Eric Birkhauser</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/comment-page-1/#comment-32451</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Birkhauser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/?p=3208#comment-32451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sure, feel free to contact me at ericbirkhauser@gmail.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, feel free to contact me at <a href="mailto:ericbirkhauser@gmail.com">ericbirkhauser@gmail.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/comment-page-1/#comment-32447</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/?p=3208#comment-32447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This fascinates me more than the actual article.  I am trying my best to get my company, “Pearland Velos” off the ground here in Texas.  Your expertise and insight are greatly appreciated.  May I correspond privately with you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This fascinates me more than the actual article.  I am trying my best to get my company, “Pearland Velos” off the ground here in Texas.  Your expertise and insight are greatly appreciated.  May I correspond privately with you?</p>
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		<title>By: Christophe</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/comment-page-1/#comment-32194</link>
		<dc:creator>Christophe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/?p=3208#comment-32194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Velomobile seems very unstable, not rigid enough and sensitive to wind.
But the pictures are beautiful. A beautiful image represents 50% of success.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Velomobile seems very unstable, not rigid enough and sensitive to wind.<br />
But the pictures are beautiful. A beautiful image represents 50% of success.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/comment-page-1/#comment-31546</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/?p=3208#comment-31546</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[IMO the tilt feature should be optional. Very optional. Especially with price being a design consideration.  A TTW has all the &quot;disadvantages&quot; of a bike and none of the advantages of a trike. Especially in urban mode. Sidewinds acting on that much fairing will make for a very unstable vehicle. I&#039;m not that metric but 50cm sounds optimistic for a practical vehicle track. I just Googled a conversion... 50cm is 19.7in...!!! ...  28in (71cm) is a very narrow track, suitable only for a racing recumbent trike and in the U.S. more than 32in (81.3cm) becomes problematic with doorways.  Even for a TTW a track of 24in (61cm) is more realistic than 50cm. 

IMO the electric assist should also be optional. Especially with price being a design consideration. The aerodynamics of the Quest are so superb that electric assist becomes more trouble than it is worth for the majority of units in operation. The weight of the composite body makes hills a challenge to SOME and this is why electric assist must be offered as an option.  One of the earlier reviewers said the seat wasn&#039;t high enough. I disagree. Situated over the rear wheel as it is, the seat cannot be lower than ~24in. if 20&quot; wheels are being used. That is too high for a non-tilting design. Trust me, the average velomobile buyer does not want to work as hard as to have to balance a TTW as they would a bicycle. I agree with the idea of using the more or less &quot;standard&quot; design of tadpole recumbent trikes to start with. The concepts of lightweight bodywork are worthy in and of themselves to not require re-inventing the wheel with respect to the chassis.

Finally, there will never be a completely separate, but equal, road system for HPV traffic in the U.S. It just isn&#039;t going to happen. Advocacy for HPV traffic must be developed to &quot;train&quot; motorists to respect HPV traffic. This is being done in Portland, OR to good effect. When HPV traffic can use the roads as they are without requireing separate and expensive infrastructure for their exclusive use there will be less initial resistance to purchasing vehicles like the Petal.

H]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO the tilt feature should be optional. Very optional. Especially with price being a design consideration.  A TTW has all the &#8220;disadvantages&#8221; of a bike and none of the advantages of a trike. Especially in urban mode. Sidewinds acting on that much fairing will make for a very unstable vehicle. I&#8217;m not that metric but 50cm sounds optimistic for a practical vehicle track. I just Googled a conversion&#8230; 50cm is 19.7in&#8230;!!! &#8230;  28in (71cm) is a very narrow track, suitable only for a racing recumbent trike and in the U.S. more than 32in (81.3cm) becomes problematic with doorways.  Even for a TTW a track of 24in (61cm) is more realistic than 50cm. </p>
<p>IMO the electric assist should also be optional. Especially with price being a design consideration. The aerodynamics of the Quest are so superb that electric assist becomes more trouble than it is worth for the majority of units in operation. The weight of the composite body makes hills a challenge to SOME and this is why electric assist must be offered as an option.  One of the earlier reviewers said the seat wasn&#8217;t high enough. I disagree. Situated over the rear wheel as it is, the seat cannot be lower than ~24in. if 20&#8243; wheels are being used. That is too high for a non-tilting design. Trust me, the average velomobile buyer does not want to work as hard as to have to balance a TTW as they would a bicycle. I agree with the idea of using the more or less &#8220;standard&#8221; design of tadpole recumbent trikes to start with. The concepts of lightweight bodywork are worthy in and of themselves to not require re-inventing the wheel with respect to the chassis.</p>
<p>Finally, there will never be a completely separate, but equal, road system for HPV traffic in the U.S. It just isn&#8217;t going to happen. Advocacy for HPV traffic must be developed to &#8220;train&#8221; motorists to respect HPV traffic. This is being done in Portland, OR to good effect. When HPV traffic can use the roads as they are without requireing separate and expensive infrastructure for their exclusive use there will be less initial resistance to purchasing vehicles like the Petal.</p>
<p>H</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Birkhauser</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/comment-page-1/#comment-30493</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Birkhauser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2012 21:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/?p=3208#comment-30493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Daniel,

Thank you for the feedback, I agree the tilting mechanism creates an array of issues that would dramatically increase cost and complexity.  On that note, Arnold at Raptobike has seemed to have perfected a cost effective tilting mechanism, in a delta configuration, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEOGr3oy3H4 .  Seems like it should be a breakthrough design.

I would be interested in discussing the membrane fairing more in detail, please feel free to contact me at ericbirkhauser@gmail.com 

Thanks,
Eric

Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel,</p>
<p>Thank you for the feedback, I agree the tilting mechanism creates an array of issues that would dramatically increase cost and complexity.  On that note, Arnold at Raptobike has seemed to have perfected a cost effective tilting mechanism, in a delta configuration, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEOGr3oy3H4" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEOGr3oy3H4</a> .  Seems like it should be a breakthrough design.</p>
<p>I would be interested in discussing the membrane fairing more in detail, please feel free to contact me at <a href="mailto:ericbirkhauser@gmail.com">ericbirkhauser@gmail.com</a> </p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Eric</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Peper</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/comment-page-1/#comment-30490</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Peper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2012 20:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/?p=3208#comment-30490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello Eric,
A beautiful design, without a doubt. Have you considered designing the shell so that it would fit tricycles that currently are on the market? i hope you have, or would consider it.
My brother and I ride ICE Adventure 2fs trikes. We ride them every chance we get. I would be very interested in buying an affordably priced shell to enclose our trikes, both for aerodynamic benefit, and to allow driving in cold weather.
IMHO, including leaning wheel steering is your prototype is a feature that would increase the complexity of the design, enough to cancel out any benefit from tilting. Many velomobile riders are able to pilot their velos through corners at high speed without wheel tilting capability. From my experience in riding my trike, most of my route is straight forward where precise high speed steering would never come into play.
The shell should be very lightweight, in order the velonaut to climb hills. Your design with the use of fabric seems excellent in this regard.
I am retired, so I have the time to help developing a frame with fabric cover for my trike, if you could use a hand.
Thanks,
Daniel, from Plymouth, Michigan, 48170, USA]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Eric,<br />
A beautiful design, without a doubt. Have you considered designing the shell so that it would fit tricycles that currently are on the market? i hope you have, or would consider it.<br />
My brother and I ride ICE Adventure 2fs trikes. We ride them every chance we get. I would be very interested in buying an affordably priced shell to enclose our trikes, both for aerodynamic benefit, and to allow driving in cold weather.<br />
IMHO, including leaning wheel steering is your prototype is a feature that would increase the complexity of the design, enough to cancel out any benefit from tilting. Many velomobile riders are able to pilot their velos through corners at high speed without wheel tilting capability. From my experience in riding my trike, most of my route is straight forward where precise high speed steering would never come into play.<br />
The shell should be very lightweight, in order the velonaut to climb hills. Your design with the use of fabric seems excellent in this regard.<br />
I am retired, so I have the time to help developing a frame with fabric cover for my trike, if you could use a hand.<br />
Thanks,<br />
Daniel, from Plymouth, Michigan, 48170, USA</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Eric Birkhauser</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/comment-page-1/#comment-29513</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Birkhauser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 21:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/?p=3208#comment-29513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For more on this project and other related projects, go to http://birkhauserdesign.com/ , thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For more on this project and other related projects, go to <a href="http://birkhauserdesign.com/" rel="nofollow">http://birkhauserdesign.com/</a> , thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Birkhauser</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/comment-page-1/#comment-26648</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Birkhauser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 13:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/?p=3208#comment-26648</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the insight, indeed a good trade off. I will explore pushing the wheels outside of the fairing for the 2.0 version. Again thank you for your time and willingness to share your expertise. My best.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the insight, indeed a good trade off. I will explore pushing the wheels outside of the fairing for the 2.0 version. Again thank you for your time and willingness to share your expertise. My best.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Birkhauser</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/comment-page-1/#comment-26636</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Birkhauser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 00:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/?p=3208#comment-26636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cheers thank you for much for you insight and comments.  Glad to hear your green commute is a success.  Good feedback, indeed my focus was on the creation of a versatile product that is capable of both higher speeds and urban visibility.  That being said, you are correct there are quite a few exceptional offerings that have focused completely on the latter.  The ability to utilize just the upper fairing as well as the potential to utilize a more porous skin or perforated skin are also other means that I have offered in the category of ventilation.  Yes, condensation is an issue, but I believe it can be resolved with proper ventilation techniques and or utilizing a segmented operable bubble.

Again thank you very much for the feedback, I greatly appreciate your vote and vote on other concepts.  My best to you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheers thank you for much for you insight and comments.  Glad to hear your green commute is a success.  Good feedback, indeed my focus was on the creation of a versatile product that is capable of both higher speeds and urban visibility.  That being said, you are correct there are quite a few exceptional offerings that have focused completely on the latter.  The ability to utilize just the upper fairing as well as the potential to utilize a more porous skin or perforated skin are also other means that I have offered in the category of ventilation.  Yes, condensation is an issue, but I believe it can be resolved with proper ventilation techniques and or utilizing a segmented operable bubble.</p>
<p>Again thank you very much for the feedback, I greatly appreciate your vote and vote on other concepts.  My best to you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Birkhauser</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2012/05/petal-velomobile-by-eric-birkhauser/comment-page-1/#comment-26619</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Birkhauser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 14:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/?p=3208#comment-26619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nick,

Thank you for your thoughts, yes indeed, price is the stiffest design parameter in this competition.  Some electric kits far exceed that price alone.  However, I think it would be possible to make a stripped down version of this concept, with entry level components, and  the frame, seat, drive-train, suspension, and wheel-set for around 1.5 K.  My hope is that with mass production of the cnc bent fairing tube frame, complete with latches and hinges, could be produced for around five hundred dollars.  It could then be possible then to utilize an inexpensive fabric to create the enclosure for around two hundred dollars.    So I think it is possible to sell a base model in the 2K price range.  However, adding OLED and LED lights and the polycarbonate bubble would then be more than likely an additional .5 to 1K investment.  And when you seek to electrify the concept you will more than likely add another 1 to 3K to your investment.  So it is feasible to have a base model for 2K, but a deluxe electrified concept, as shown in the renderings would more than likely approach the 4 to 5K range, which is on the lower end of the velomobile pricing spectrum.  An on another note, I agree, there are many stunning velomobiles in production, but I think there is room for a few more...

My hope is that the advantages of purchasing a velomobile such as this over a cheap car will make it attractive to this new non car oriented generation.  If the velomobile can truly become an attractive and safe mode of transit, then I believe with financing or zipcar type programs this product could become much more successful than it currently is.  There are two enormous obstacles in this challenge; marketing and infrastructure.  In the US, most people have no idea what a velomobile is, let alone the performance advantages of the recumbent position and a fairing.  So great measures will have to be taking to increase the awareness of this new mode of transit.  Great caution must be taken to not give velomobiling a black eye while it is in its infancy.  Infrastructure, I believe, is the largest obstacle for the velomobile.  As an everyday HPT commuter, I am challenged everyday with the limited or nonexistent bicycle facilities in the DC area, and it was recently ranked the 4th best American city for cycling.  Similar to necessity of track for rail transit, an infrastructure of dedicated high speed bicycle facilities that are successfully separated from pedestrians and automobiles is absolutely essential.  To truly capture the high speed potential of the velomobile, whilst maintaining the highest level of safety, this type of infrastructure is absolutely critical.  This will be an enormous and extremely expensive challenge, but the these costs are miniscule when considering expanding automoble, bus, light or heavy rail transit systems (let alone the cost savings for health care).  This is a very complex issue that deserves great study, which is why it is the subject matter of a book that I am currently working on.

So yes, Nick, the cost is one issue, one which I believe can be resolved, but there are many more obstacles on the road to success for the velomobile.  Thank you very much for you insight and valid points on the matter, my best.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick,</p>
<p>Thank you for your thoughts, yes indeed, price is the stiffest design parameter in this competition.  Some electric kits far exceed that price alone.  However, I think it would be possible to make a stripped down version of this concept, with entry level components, and  the frame, seat, drive-train, suspension, and wheel-set for around 1.5 K.  My hope is that with mass production of the cnc bent fairing tube frame, complete with latches and hinges, could be produced for around five hundred dollars.  It could then be possible then to utilize an inexpensive fabric to create the enclosure for around two hundred dollars.    So I think it is possible to sell a base model in the 2K price range.  However, adding OLED and LED lights and the polycarbonate bubble would then be more than likely an additional .5 to 1K investment.  And when you seek to electrify the concept you will more than likely add another 1 to 3K to your investment.  So it is feasible to have a base model for 2K, but a deluxe electrified concept, as shown in the renderings would more than likely approach the 4 to 5K range, which is on the lower end of the velomobile pricing spectrum.  An on another note, I agree, there are many stunning velomobiles in production, but I think there is room for a few more&#8230;</p>
<p>My hope is that the advantages of purchasing a velomobile such as this over a cheap car will make it attractive to this new non car oriented generation.  If the velomobile can truly become an attractive and safe mode of transit, then I believe with financing or zipcar type programs this product could become much more successful than it currently is.  There are two enormous obstacles in this challenge; marketing and infrastructure.  In the US, most people have no idea what a velomobile is, let alone the performance advantages of the recumbent position and a fairing.  So great measures will have to be taking to increase the awareness of this new mode of transit.  Great caution must be taken to not give velomobiling a black eye while it is in its infancy.  Infrastructure, I believe, is the largest obstacle for the velomobile.  As an everyday HPT commuter, I am challenged everyday with the limited or nonexistent bicycle facilities in the DC area, and it was recently ranked the 4th best American city for cycling.  Similar to necessity of track for rail transit, an infrastructure of dedicated high speed bicycle facilities that are successfully separated from pedestrians and automobiles is absolutely essential.  To truly capture the high speed potential of the velomobile, whilst maintaining the highest level of safety, this type of infrastructure is absolutely critical.  This will be an enormous and extremely expensive challenge, but the these costs are miniscule when considering expanding automoble, bus, light or heavy rail transit systems (let alone the cost savings for health care).  This is a very complex issue that deserves great study, which is why it is the subject matter of a book that I am currently working on.</p>
<p>So yes, Nick, the cost is one issue, one which I believe can be resolved, but there are many more obstacles on the road to success for the velomobile.  Thank you very much for you insight and valid points on the matter, my best.</p>
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