<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Museeuw flax bikes and more</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more</link>
	<description>The blog about industrial design in the bike industry</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 19:51:51 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: neil</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3325</link>
		<dc:creator>neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/#comment-3325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot; Stan S. Hate to point this out again, but it looks like I&#039;m going to have to...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&quot;&lt;b&gt;Come Eurobike,&lt;/b&gt; there&#039;ll be a whole new range of Museeuw bikes on display, plus Frameforum will be able to share the full set of test data for those who like the science bits&quot;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Eurobike opens on the 2nd of September. Everything comes to those who wait....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot; Stan S. Hate to point this out again, but it looks like I&#39;m going to have to&#8230;</p>
<p>&quot;<b>Come Eurobike,</b> there&#39;ll be a whole new range of Museeuw bikes on display, plus Frameforum will be able to share the full set of test data for those who like the science bits&quot;.</p>
<p>Eurobike opens on the 2nd of September. Everything comes to those who wait&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stan S.</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3322</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/#comment-3322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Neil --- The issue is not about your website providing a brief preview or not. The issue is about you stamping your voice of validation on the bike without understanding anything about vibration, all based on a graph you and many of us do not even understand. It baffled me. Your article is very weak.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Neil &#8212; The issue is not about your website providing a brief preview or not. The issue is about you stamping your voice of validation on the bike without understanding anything about vibration, all based on a graph you and many of us do not even understand. It baffled me. Your article is very weak.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: neil</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3321</link>
		<dc:creator>neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/#comment-3321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The piece on Frameforum was not intended as a full scientific study or technical brief, but as a preview of the study being presented by Museeuw bikes at Eurobike. I made that much clear in the penultimate paragraph:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&quot;Come Eurobike, there&#039;ll be a whole new range of Museeuw bikes on display, &lt;b&gt;plus Frameforum will be able to share the full set of test data for those who like the science bits.&lt;/b&gt;&quot; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;@Stan S. The full &#039;bells and whistles&#039; findings of the study have yet to be made public, as stated in the above quote. A full report will be available to the press and trade at Eurobike. &lt;br /&gt;That is my understanding based on info from Museeuw Bikes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The piece on Frameforum was not intended as a full scientific study or technical brief, but as a preview of the study being presented by Museeuw bikes at Eurobike. I made that much clear in the penultimate paragraph:</p>
<p>&quot;Come Eurobike, there&#39;ll be a whole new range of Museeuw bikes on display, <b>plus Frameforum will be able to share the full set of test data for those who like the science bits.</b>&quot; </p>
<p>@Stan S. The full &#39;bells and whistles&#39; findings of the study have yet to be made public, as stated in the above quote. A full report will be available to the press and trade at Eurobike. <br />That is my understanding based on info from Museeuw Bikes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stan S.</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3320</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/#comment-3320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Daflex : Could you identify yourself? Your constant using of &quot;we&quot; with relation to Museeuw suggests you&#039;re not on the faculty of U of Ghent. Either way, we suggest you write an appropriate and detailed engineering report when all this is over, so we can critique and discuss the flaws of the methodology. From one little graph that was extremely confusing, nothing can be validated. On top of all this, the author of Frame Forum article conveniently takes in upon his own shoulders to approve and validate the study with little information and understanding of subject matter, saying : &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&quot;When the four are stacked up together, its clear from the graphs how well the Museeuw flax-based frame stood up against the competition. In short,  the subjective claims of  the many happy Museeuw owners (and those fortunate to have ridden one in tests) are now backed-up with an objective set of results confirming what they&#039;ve known all along; the Museeuw is undoubtedly one of the finest – if not the finest – performance composite frame available today.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is a clever attempt at marketing, not objective presentation of material.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Daflex : Could you identify yourself? Your constant using of &quot;we&quot; with relation to Museeuw suggests you&#39;re not on the faculty of U of Ghent. Either way, we suggest you write an appropriate and detailed engineering report when all this is over, so we can critique and discuss the flaws of the methodology. From one little graph that was extremely confusing, nothing can be validated. On top of all this, the author of Frame Forum article conveniently takes in upon his own shoulders to approve and validate the study with little information and understanding of subject matter, saying : </p>
<p>&quot;When the four are stacked up together, its clear from the graphs how well the Museeuw flax-based frame stood up against the competition. In short,  the subjective claims of  the many happy Museeuw owners (and those fortunate to have ridden one in tests) are now backed-up with an objective set of results confirming what they&#39;ve known all along; the Museeuw is undoubtedly one of the finest – if not the finest – performance composite frame available today.&quot;</p>
<p>This is a clever attempt at marketing, not objective presentation of material.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daflex</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3319</link>
		<dc:creator>Daflex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/#comment-3319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Every testframe (Museeuw MF5, Pinarello Prince, Wilier Cento Uno and Cervelo R3SL) was tested 4 times: 2 clincher type rims (high and low profile) and 2 tubular (high and low). If my idea was correct, I should not see too much difference between different wheelsets since I was looking at the frame properties (between rearstay and saddle). Final results showed a margin of difference less than 5%.  The measurements were done using independent accelerometers at a measuring rate of 50 Hz. The accelerometers were synchronized before the test.  This enabled me to obtain a frequency spectrum of 0 to 25 Hz at any given time after putting the datasets through a Fast Fourier Transformation. The test method is comparable to how construction workers are monitored for whole-body-vibrations during their work.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For every 27-second interval I used an FFT-algorithm to get a 2D frequency spectrum, i.e. &quot;frequency vs. load&quot; graph.  By using the 27-second interval I could avoid any response delay of the frame when impacted. By comparing each individual 27-second frequency spectrum of the rearstay and seatpost at the same interval I was able to construct the nice 3D graphs (appr. 300 graphs put next to eachother) that were shown on Frameforum.  I have to apologize for naming my axes, especially the y-axis since it actually shows how much of the original load is being absorbed. &quot;0,8&quot; actually means that 80 percent of the original load is being absorbed/dampened somewhere between rearstay and seatpost and NOT 0,8 percent. So the MF-5 dampens around 70 percent of the original load as where the Pinarello Prince absorbs only 45 percent of the original load measured at the rear stay.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A new website for Museeuw Bikes will be launched shortly after Eurobike and it will contain an R&amp;D section where you will be able to find all data and facts on these tests with a more elaborate explanation and also a short explanation on the activities we are planning with Ghent University to further expand the Flax technology in bicycles. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for your interest!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every testframe (Museeuw MF5, Pinarello Prince, Wilier Cento Uno and Cervelo R3SL) was tested 4 times: 2 clincher type rims (high and low profile) and 2 tubular (high and low). If my idea was correct, I should not see too much difference between different wheelsets since I was looking at the frame properties (between rearstay and saddle). Final results showed a margin of difference less than 5%.  The measurements were done using independent accelerometers at a measuring rate of 50 Hz. The accelerometers were synchronized before the test.  This enabled me to obtain a frequency spectrum of 0 to 25 Hz at any given time after putting the datasets through a Fast Fourier Transformation. The test method is comparable to how construction workers are monitored for whole-body-vibrations during their work.</p>
<p>For every 27-second interval I used an FFT-algorithm to get a 2D frequency spectrum, i.e. &quot;frequency vs. load&quot; graph.  By using the 27-second interval I could avoid any response delay of the frame when impacted. By comparing each individual 27-second frequency spectrum of the rearstay and seatpost at the same interval I was able to construct the nice 3D graphs (appr. 300 graphs put next to eachother) that were shown on Frameforum.  I have to apologize for naming my axes, especially the y-axis since it actually shows how much of the original load is being absorbed. &quot;0,8&quot; actually means that 80 percent of the original load is being absorbed/dampened somewhere between rearstay and seatpost and NOT 0,8 percent. So the MF-5 dampens around 70 percent of the original load as where the Pinarello Prince absorbs only 45 percent of the original load measured at the rear stay.</p>
<p>A new website for Museeuw Bikes will be launched shortly after Eurobike and it will contain an R&amp;D section where you will be able to find all data and facts on these tests with a more elaborate explanation and also a short explanation on the activities we are planning with Ghent University to further expand the Flax technology in bicycles. </p>
<p>Thanks for your interest!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daflex</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3318</link>
		<dc:creator>Daflex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/#comment-3318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In measuring comfort, there is no straigthforward way to do so.  Putting the frame on a shaker might give some indication but you will never get an actual real-life simulation on a shaker table.  Also, riding behaviour and road conditions greatly influences how loads are introduced into the frame not to mention tire pressures, rim height and so on...  The only way to get some trend/indication on vibration damping was to get the same rider do the exact same route (long enough to determine a visual trend in the results and possibly filter out any variations) and strategically position accelerometers to get good and reliable datasets. On cobblestones every frame will transfer the vibration and it is not these vibrations which were of interest to us.  Low frequency vibrations already cause significant energy loss and these can already be felt on concrete road or badly maintained roads. I therefore took a very basic route with some good and some bad road conditions and avoiding extreme conditions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The general idea was: if I could find a way to correctly measure and determine the difference between the loads that were introduced into the frame and the loads that the rider would experience, I could find out how &quot;comfortable&quot; a bicycle frame is quantitatively.  Therefore, placing one accelerometer on the rearstay, near the rear wheel hub would get me the loads coming into the frame and an accelerometer positioned just below the saddle would get me the loads before the rider experiences them.  The reason why I used 5 accelerometers was to gain insight on the effect of the design of each specific frame structure (ISP/no ISP, curved vs. straight rearstay,...).  In the future I will try to analyse this data as well but for now I only focused the rear stay and seatpost data to get the broader picture.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(continued below)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In measuring comfort, there is no straigthforward way to do so.  Putting the frame on a shaker might give some indication but you will never get an actual real-life simulation on a shaker table.  Also, riding behaviour and road conditions greatly influences how loads are introduced into the frame not to mention tire pressures, rim height and so on&#8230;  The only way to get some trend/indication on vibration damping was to get the same rider do the exact same route (long enough to determine a visual trend in the results and possibly filter out any variations) and strategically position accelerometers to get good and reliable datasets. On cobblestones every frame will transfer the vibration and it is not these vibrations which were of interest to us.  Low frequency vibrations already cause significant energy loss and these can already be felt on concrete road or badly maintained roads. I therefore took a very basic route with some good and some bad road conditions and avoiding extreme conditions.</p>
<p>The general idea was: if I could find a way to correctly measure and determine the difference between the loads that were introduced into the frame and the loads that the rider would experience, I could find out how &quot;comfortable&quot; a bicycle frame is quantitatively.  Therefore, placing one accelerometer on the rearstay, near the rear wheel hub would get me the loads coming into the frame and an accelerometer positioned just below the saddle would get me the loads before the rider experiences them.  The reason why I used 5 accelerometers was to gain insight on the effect of the design of each specific frame structure (ISP/no ISP, curved vs. straight rearstay,&#8230;).  In the future I will try to analyse this data as well but for now I only focused the rear stay and seatpost data to get the broader picture.</p>
<p>(continued below)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daflex</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3317</link>
		<dc:creator>Daflex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/#comment-3317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi guys,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&#039;m actually the person who performed these tests and I have to say that the original article on Frameforum dropped the ball on a couple of points.  I prepared a technical presentation for the Museeuw Bikes press launch, which I also presented and could thus explain in more detail. A copy of this presentation somehow made it to the guys at Frameforum who picked it up without the proper technical explanations.  I will attend Eurobike, so if any of you have any questions please come by the Museeuw bikes booth and I will gladly answer all questions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For those of you that will not be able to make it to Eurobike next week, let me explain below what the graphs show and how I got to make the assumptions...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(continued below)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi guys,</p>
<p>I&#39;m actually the person who performed these tests and I have to say that the original article on Frameforum dropped the ball on a couple of points.  I prepared a technical presentation for the Museeuw Bikes press launch, which I also presented and could thus explain in more detail. A copy of this presentation somehow made it to the guys at Frameforum who picked it up without the proper technical explanations.  I will attend Eurobike, so if any of you have any questions please come by the Museeuw bikes booth and I will gladly answer all questions.</p>
<p>For those of you that will not be able to make it to Eurobike next week, let me explain below what the graphs show and how I got to make the assumptions&#8230;</p>
<p>(continued below)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lou</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3315</link>
		<dc:creator>lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/#comment-3315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Article OP linked to is a pseudo scientific article with a lot of pseudo tech bla bla and a lot of embarrassing errors. TOUR magazine tested a Museeuw frameset some time ago. It was ridiculously expensive, no notable difference in comfort but very well finished. That&#039;s it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Article OP linked to is a pseudo scientific article with a lot of pseudo tech bla bla and a lot of embarrassing errors. TOUR magazine tested a Museeuw frameset some time ago. It was ridiculously expensive, no notable difference in comfort but very well finished. That&#39;s it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3314</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/#comment-3314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Frequency determines pitch or how loud sound is. Length is determined by wavelength.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frequency determines pitch or how loud sound is. Length is determined by wavelength.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/comment-page-1/#comment-3313</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2009/08/museeuw-flax-bikes-and-more/#comment-3313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Frame Forum article writes :&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&quot;Those vibrations have two significant parameters : amplitude and  frequency.  The amplitude part is how hard the shock is, while the frequency is how long that shock lasts before it is dissipated.  Amplitude is measured in parts of a second,  frequency in Hertz, or length of cycle.  If you think of it in terms of a bell, the amplitude is the note and the frequency is how long the bell holds that note before fading away.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Frequency is length of note? Seems like the authors need a discourse in elementary physics. Frequency is how often the wave cycles in a second, and is the reciprocal of time period. If I shake the author of the article 3 times in one second, the frequency is 3 Hz. Each shaking will endure for 0.3 seconds.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Frame Forum article writes :</p>
<p>&quot;Those vibrations have two significant parameters : amplitude and  frequency.  The amplitude part is how hard the shock is, while the frequency is how long that shock lasts before it is dissipated.  Amplitude is measured in parts of a second,  frequency in Hertz, or length of cycle.  If you think of it in terms of a bell, the amplitude is the note and the frequency is how long the bell holds that note before fading away.&quot;</p>
<p>Frequency is length of note? Seems like the authors need a discourse in elementary physics. Frequency is how often the wave cycles in a second, and is the reciprocal of time period. If I shake the author of the article 3 times in one second, the frequency is 3 Hz. Each shaking will endure for 0.3 seconds.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
