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	<title>Comments on: Electronic Dura-Ace</title>
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	<description>The blog about industrial design in the bike industry</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/comment-page-1/#comment-1884</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/#comment-1884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[the only &quot;problem&quot; i can think i can think of that this could possibly solve would be the deterioration of shifter cables. electric wiring would very rarely, if ever, need to be replaced. its a can of worms though, as the servo and battery required to make it shift would surely add quite a bit of weight, although electronic shifters would be much lighter than mechanical, as it needs nothing more than a multi-position switch. its also quite possible that the electronic shifting system is quicker than a mechanical one, which  could yield some real benefits for rapidly shifting inclines or quick accelerations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the only &#8220;problem&#8221; i can think i can think of that this could possibly solve would be the deterioration of shifter cables. electric wiring would very rarely, if ever, need to be replaced. its a can of worms though, as the servo and battery required to make it shift would surely add quite a bit of weight, although electronic shifters would be much lighter than mechanical, as it needs nothing more than a multi-position switch. its also quite possible that the electronic shifting system is quicker than a mechanical one, which  could yield some real benefits for rapidly shifting inclines or quick accelerations.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/comment-page-1/#comment-1864</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/#comment-1864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Think of this as a multi-phase technology implementation (big words i know)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;e-shifting today as others have stated serves no real purpose except for the &quot;techie or gadget factor&quot;. But I think as another stated integrate them with other components such as cadence/powermeters/HRM, etc...and you could have a very viable system that could take the sport into another level.  Whether it will be good or bad is yet to been seen.  However, things such as this will be limited in racing as there are alot of F1 technologies that are not available in their consumer counterparts.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I can envision a smart transmission that can automatically adjust based on the riders current condition (power/cadence/grade/HR/etc).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think of this as a multi-phase technology implementation (big words i know)</p>
<p>e-shifting today as others have stated serves no real purpose except for the &#8220;techie or gadget factor&#8221;. But I think as another stated integrate them with other components such as cadence/powermeters/HRM, etc&#8230;and you could have a very viable system that could take the sport into another level.  Whether it will be good or bad is yet to been seen.  However, things such as this will be limited in racing as there are alot of F1 technologies that are not available in their consumer counterparts.</p>
<p>I can envision a smart transmission that can automatically adjust based on the riders current condition (power/cadence/grade/HR/etc).</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/comment-page-1/#comment-1820</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/#comment-1820</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think anything furthering the sport of cycling is a good thing, wether or not it is actually needed. People probably scoffed at the idea of a multi-speed bike when they first came around, and i&#039;m sure even more scoffed at disc-brakes, and furthermore hydraulic discs. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As far as the actual system goes, I think it creates just as many new problems as it solves.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;One thing that shimano has a patent for that I hope they do someday produce is a 14-speed cassette. You could run a 9-22 strait block. how sick would that be?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think anything furthering the sport of cycling is a good thing, wether or not it is actually needed. People probably scoffed at the idea of a multi-speed bike when they first came around, and i&#8217;m sure even more scoffed at disc-brakes, and furthermore hydraulic discs. </p>
<p>As far as the actual system goes, I think it creates just as many new problems as it solves.</p>
<p>One thing that shimano has a patent for that I hope they do someday produce is a 14-speed cassette. You could run a 9-22 strait block. how sick would that be?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/comment-page-1/#comment-1528</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 02:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/#comment-1528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not jiving with the perception that dual suspension makes mountain biking smooth. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Suspension is for one thing primarily: CONTROL&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It has nothing to do with comfort or making the ride smooth. While those are by products of suspension it primarily &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;has everything to do with being able to control a bike blasting over rough terrain at full cry without losing control of the bike. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Taking que from Formula one.  The suspension and technology there have nothing to do with comfort.  An F1 Car will beat the $&amp;#&amp; otta of it&#039;s occupant with g-forces alone.  The suspension settings are anything but comfortable.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Electronics is Shimanos way of making a pre-emptive strike against the introduction of the NuVinci in the market place.  Like alluded to earlier slap a computer on it and you have launch control. Optimal Gearing for the amount of watts a particular rider is generating.  So on. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Should Nu Vinci get ahead of Shimi with a lighter and more refined design...all they&#039;ll need to do is outsource or higher a few engineers to slap some electronic gagetry on board.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However my guess is that the Nu Vinci idea will probably be sooner developed by someone interested in using it someplace financially more profitable...like the auto industry.   &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But here&#039;s another possibility with Electronics.  Shimano could make their unit alter the amount of cable pulled with each shift.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Theoretically an e-shifter could calibrate itself to a campy cassette, or a 7,8,9, or 10 speed cassette.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not jiving with the perception that dual suspension makes mountain biking smooth. </p>
<p>Suspension is for one thing primarily: CONTROL</p>
<p>It has nothing to do with comfort or making the ride smooth. While those are by products of suspension it primarily </p>
<p>has everything to do with being able to control a bike blasting over rough terrain at full cry without losing control of the bike. </p>
<p>Taking que from Formula one.  The suspension and technology there have nothing to do with comfort.  An F1 Car will beat the $&#&#038; otta of it&#8217;s occupant with g-forces alone.  The suspension settings are anything but comfortable.  </p>
<p>Electronics is Shimanos way of making a pre-emptive strike against the introduction of the NuVinci in the market place.  Like alluded to earlier slap a computer on it and you have launch control. Optimal Gearing for the amount of watts a particular rider is generating.  So on. </p>
<p>Should Nu Vinci get ahead of Shimi with a lighter and more refined design&#8230;all they&#8217;ll need to do is outsource or higher a few engineers to slap some electronic gagetry on board.  </p>
<p>However my guess is that the Nu Vinci idea will probably be sooner developed by someone interested in using it someplace financially more profitable&#8230;like the auto industry.   </p>
<p>But here&#8217;s another possibility with Electronics.  Shimano could make their unit alter the amount of cable pulled with each shift.  </p>
<p>Theoretically an e-shifter could calibrate itself to a campy cassette, or a 7,8,9, or 10 speed cassette.</p>
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		<title>By: Q</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/comment-page-1/#comment-1469</link>
		<dc:creator>Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/#comment-1469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A dude on our local rides is missing some fingers on his right hand. He built his own shifter setup which includes both front and rear levers that he manipulates with his left thumb when his hand is on the hood. His left brake lever pulls the cable for front and rear brake pads. It&#039;s genius imho, but I bet he would jump at the chance to get an electronic shifter. As for me, I don&#039;t have those needs so even though I am a racer I think that properly maintained mechanical shifting is fine with me. It&#039;s bad enough that I have a speedometer on the bike!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A dude on our local rides is missing some fingers on his right hand. He built his own shifter setup which includes both front and rear levers that he manipulates with his left thumb when his hand is on the hood. His left brake lever pulls the cable for front and rear brake pads. It&#8217;s genius imho, but I bet he would jump at the chance to get an electronic shifter. As for me, I don&#8217;t have those needs so even though I am a racer I think that properly maintained mechanical shifting is fine with me. It&#8217;s bad enough that I have a speedometer on the bike!</p>
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		<title>By: tr</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/comment-page-1/#comment-1353</link>
		<dc:creator>tr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/#comment-1353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[unlike many people who chime in on the subject of electronic shifting, i actually use electronic shifting on my daily ride, and have been for a few years now.  shifting is fast, and precise, literally button click fast.  i hardly have to move any part of my hand, just extend my finger a bit (when in drops/hoods, or move my thumb when on the tops).  also, i loved the fact when installing it, that i didn&#039;t have to deal with cables.  basically, i mounted the rear derailleur, put the chain in, adjusted it so pulleys line up, done.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;i liken electronic shifting to its automotive counterpart, dual-clutch transmissions.  there will always be people who want a manual.  but if i can get something that shifts just like a manual, and is faster at shifting than any human will ever be, why not?  and i feel the same way for bikes.  most of road cyclists out there have frames made out of the most exotic, modern, and technologically advanced materials.  so why not put the most technologically advanced shifting systems on there too, instead of some 19th century developed system?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;but, to each his own.  i know that i thoroughly enjoy riding, and switching gears lightning fast at the touch of a button.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>unlike many people who chime in on the subject of electronic shifting, i actually use electronic shifting on my daily ride, and have been for a few years now.  shifting is fast, and precise, literally button click fast.  i hardly have to move any part of my hand, just extend my finger a bit (when in drops/hoods, or move my thumb when on the tops).  also, i loved the fact when installing it, that i didn&#8217;t have to deal with cables.  basically, i mounted the rear derailleur, put the chain in, adjusted it so pulleys line up, done.  </p>
<p>i liken electronic shifting to its automotive counterpart, dual-clutch transmissions.  there will always be people who want a manual.  but if i can get something that shifts just like a manual, and is faster at shifting than any human will ever be, why not?  and i feel the same way for bikes.  most of road cyclists out there have frames made out of the most exotic, modern, and technologically advanced materials.  so why not put the most technologically advanced shifting systems on there too, instead of some 19th century developed system?</p>
<p>but, to each his own.  i know that i thoroughly enjoy riding, and switching gears lightning fast at the touch of a button.</p>
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		<title>By: Curtis Corlew</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/comment-page-1/#comment-1337</link>
		<dc:creator>Curtis Corlew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/#comment-1337</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This has great possibilities for adaptive solutions. I have a hard time with a left shifter. I&#039;d love a button.Even more if it actually worked.&lt;br/&gt;But in general, as a thing we all need, I think not....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has great possibilities for adaptive solutions. I have a hard time with a left shifter. I&#8217;d love a button.Even more if it actually worked.<br />But in general, as a thing we all need, I think not&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: B. Nicholson</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/comment-page-1/#comment-1334</link>
		<dc:creator>B. Nicholson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/#comment-1334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, I&#039;m a genius, let me help:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Gotta put the gear indicator on the cyclo-computer with GPS mapping, setting way points with each shift, then letting the system remember the course and shift for you automatically during the race.  Make refinements, optimize for speed, pedal effort, integrate with electric assist, optimized for delta s delta t, signals to rider, etc.  Fantastic.&lt;br/&gt;No cable mess, do it for brakes, too, add electronic stability control.  Put the generator on the disk brakes/shocks when possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I&#8217;m a genius, let me help:</p>
<p>Gotta put the gear indicator on the cyclo-computer with GPS mapping, setting way points with each shift, then letting the system remember the course and shift for you automatically during the race.  Make refinements, optimize for speed, pedal effort, integrate with electric assist, optimized for delta s delta t, signals to rider, etc.  Fantastic.<br />No cable mess, do it for brakes, too, add electronic stability control.  Put the generator on the disk brakes/shocks when possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/comment-page-1/#comment-1332</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/#comment-1332</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As the majority of my bikes are friction shift, I will venture a comment, when SIS (Shimano&#039;s initial pro level index) came out we called it sissy shifting, it lowered the skill level to control a bike. Bad? No, but probably a similar view of the cambio corsa guys when good cable controls arrived.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Index is better, I can shift well with friction, but if I was racing, give me the latest and greatest.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As an aside, an employee of mine who commutes took my advice and got a disc braked road bike, (cable control, not hydraulic) I have had a few friends constantly buy the newest, and just too much maint. yet. This fellow loves the bike with discs, it has transformed his view of control in the wet, I test rode it, and must agree, darn nice.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The long way leading to the point is, humans adapt very fast, so mastery of a level of technology is good enough, but &quot;new&quot; tech needs to be evaluated for its place and utility.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Not all bikes need the latest, but in general applications that allow more to ride with pleasure is a good thing.  There is a creeping market of anti tech though, I put the &quot;fixie&quot; crowd in that marketing box. I used to ride a true track bike on the street out of necessity, just not as brave/foolish today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the majority of my bikes are friction shift, I will venture a comment, when SIS (Shimano&#8217;s initial pro level index) came out we called it sissy shifting, it lowered the skill level to control a bike. Bad? No, but probably a similar view of the cambio corsa guys when good cable controls arrived.</p>
<p>Index is better, I can shift well with friction, but if I was racing, give me the latest and greatest.</p>
<p>As an aside, an employee of mine who commutes took my advice and got a disc braked road bike, (cable control, not hydraulic) I have had a few friends constantly buy the newest, and just too much maint. yet. This fellow loves the bike with discs, it has transformed his view of control in the wet, I test rode it, and must agree, darn nice.</p>
<p>The long way leading to the point is, humans adapt very fast, so mastery of a level of technology is good enough, but &#8220;new&#8221; tech needs to be evaluated for its place and utility.</p>
<p>Not all bikes need the latest, but in general applications that allow more to ride with pleasure is a good thing.  There is a creeping market of anti tech though, I put the &#8220;fixie&#8221; crowd in that marketing box. I used to ride a true track bike on the street out of necessity, just not as brave/foolish today.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/comment-page-1/#comment-1323</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bicycledesign.net/2008/02/electronic-dura-ace/#comment-1323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bradley, you deleted the comment, but I’ll ask anyway. Why the fascination with friction shifting. Can you enlighten me? I rode with friction downtube shifters just like everyone else in 80s before SIS came out. Yeah, friction is foolproof, but you have to admit that indexed shifting works well and makes shifting easier. I have absolutely no desire to ever go back to friction. I agree that not all advances are necessarily good ones, but how is indexed shifting a bad thing?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bradley, you deleted the comment, but I’ll ask anyway. Why the fascination with friction shifting. Can you enlighten me? I rode with friction downtube shifters just like everyone else in 80s before SIS came out. Yeah, friction is foolproof, but you have to admit that indexed shifting works well and makes shifting easier. I have absolutely no desire to ever go back to friction. I agree that not all advances are necessarily good ones, but how is indexed shifting a bad thing?</p>
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