Comments

19 responses to “Hubless wheels”

1. 

   jorgensen

   August 22, 2006

   An Art Center Student did a CONcept of one in the 80’s as well, the physics required placed it in the same league as read in Kurt Vonnegut’s Sirens of Titan novel. I wrote it off as an excuse not to model a “real” wheel. It was a handsome model however.

   If one can’t design, at least Style it well.

   Reply
2. 

   Michael Downes

   August 23, 2006

   Dismal! I think it’s a solution looking for a problem. There are far more practical ways to enhance aerodynamics. You are right, these ‘concepts’ (and I use the term reluctantly) always bubble up every few years when designers can’t think of any cool ideas for a bicycle. Apart from the practical difficulties of getting a hubless wheel to roll smoothly against a bunch of tiny rollers or bearings there is the additional problem of lateral strength. Not easy to achieve with a skinny carbon do-nut. The simple fact is the traditional spoked wheel is an elegant, adaptable and mechanically sophisticated solution that has yet to be bettered. If it ain’t broke dont fix it.

   Reply
3. 

   54

   August 23, 2006

   Haha….can’t blame them. They are art students after all. Worst yet, they can’t make it working for the auto industry….so they are designing bikes.

   Hahaha….did I step on some toes there?

   I remember seeing them(the Black Hole wheel) as well, when it came out in the mid 90’s. The funny thing was that… in later version of the wheel, that hole in the middle shrunk to half…

   Damn those engineers….

   Another thing with some of these concept bikes that annoys the hell out of me is those top tube that cantilever out to the seat. I know it looks cool/uniqe and all, but… How in the f@#$ am I suppose to stand over that?

   I can understand if those Art Center boys skipped a few physics/engineering classes, but really, you really should try to ride a bike a few times, before you go crazy with them pretty markers/crayons.

   I know, I know…You boys live in LA, and nobody rides in LA, and it’s not easy riding up that hill to Art Center either…So, I don’t really blame ya. Hahaha….

   Reply
   1. 

      brendan

      August 31, 2022

      I hope you look back on your comment and cringe. So negative, so unnecessary. And the hahaha comments always make me think of people with personality disorders or low IQ.
      I think a mean streak combined with no imagination and a lack of curiosity is your problem, and not something anyone else should be subjected to.

      Reply
4. 

   Ben Lukkie

   August 23, 2006

   Hello, my name is Ben Lukkie, I just finished a wooden hubless cruiserbike, all handmade, working on the same principle, front rim runs inside 3 skateboard wheels.

   Pics here:
   http://forum.jexx.nl/viewtopic.php?t=4

   or here:
   http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/benlukkie/Harley%20D-Day/

   It does have quite some rolling resistance, but hey, cruising is not speeding!

   for more info email me at benlukkie@hotmail.com

   Reply
5. 

   tr

   August 23, 2006

   i have to say that when i saw that on core77, i was a bit disappointed. yet again, an industrial designer shows what little engineering and physics he/she knows. yes, i am an industrial design student myself, but i came into this field after earning a degree in physics. and it really irks me how many people in this field have no real understanding of basic mechanics or kinematics. i understand that this is just a rendering, and there really is no background information available about the design. but i would really like to know the reason behind the design, behind the features, and the needs that are being met, or the problems that are being solved. and if there are no unmet needs, or problems that are trying to be solved, well then this is just a 3D modeling/styling exercise.

   Reply
6. 

   James

   August 25, 2006

   Thanks for the comments everyone. I guess I am not the only one who is not a big fan of this particular idea.

   Ben, thanks for submitting pictures of your homemade bike. I have seen many examples of hubless wheels on motorcycles. Usually they are flashy cruisers and it is obvious that the wheel is just for looks. As you stated, there is no performance advantage to your wheel. It is fine to do it just because you like the look, but I don’t like it when these types of designs are touted as the next step in the evolution of the wheel.

   Reply
7. 

   Anonymous

   March 31, 2007

   Hi guys, just been watching a program on discovery channel called ‘biker build off’ and in this a builder had made a hubless wheel which seemed to be rolling down the highway just fine, has anyone else seen this too?

   Reply
8. 

   Anonymous

   August 2, 2007

   Well from reading this you all sound like a bunch of engineers seriously lacking creativity and flare. Hubless wheels do actually work and there are companies who actually produce them. People said steel hulled boats wouldn’t float that if you went to fast on a train you wouldn’t be able to breath. Designing with preconceived constraints and by saying oh “that idea won’t work” is stupid especially if you want to get far in design. you see a problem and come up with as may different ideas as possible and overcome the problems then. Physics is still an evolving science, who thought 40years ago that we would be able to use a man made material to stop bullets, such as kevlar. Makes me laugh when i hear people moan about interesting designs such as the above. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it???? have you ever ridden a bike? wheels are constantly getting buckled and are no where near perfect. THis wheel is not a stupid design or is it unachievable with the technologies we have know this is very possible, the only reason it hasn’t be used by major companies as it would need lots of investment. If you look around you will see that airless car tires are already being tested. So please don’t attack design because you don’t understand it, put forward constructive arguments of how this could be achieved. If you are engineers that everything should be improved as to make it more efficient, from what I remember one of the most efficient products on the market is around 80% efficient and its a metal bar!

   SO stop you moaning. and be a bit more creative. you never know might do you some good!

   Reply
   1. 

      Anonymous2

      March 15, 2010

      “Well from reading this you all sound like a bunch of engineers seriously lacking creativity and flare. ” __________________________________________________________________________________________How exactly does this design advance anything other than aesthetics? This is clearly a road bike. A hubless wheel will add a tremendous amount of weight to the rim. Spokes significantly add to the radial strength of the wheel with very little weight. Without spokes, you will need to beef-up the rim weight a great deal to have an equivalent radial strength. You will then greatly increase the amount of rotational interia – your physics book hasn’t changed a bit in several hundred years with regards to angular acceleration. Racing bikes is a big business with a lot of money behind it. Why wouldn’t they invest in a better racing machine?

      Reply
9. 

   Anonymous

   May 22, 2008

   I saw one of these black hole wheels in Cycle Werks yesterday (May 21, 2007) It looked a little different, had more mass on the bike frame side, giving the appearance of a ying/yang type thing. The story the guy told me (and I realize this is all heresay) is that the company spent $250K doing the R&D, set-up & fabrication and produced 3 of these wheels. The owner of the shop got one of them. They worked temendously well, and were noisy as hell, but they worked (by worked, implied that it was a vast improvement over conventional design). THEN, UCI decided that the wheels were ‘illegal’ for competition, and that was the end of the black hole. Application was for track riding only.

   Reply
10. 

    Anonymous

    May 29, 2008

    i think from the computer photo you can see if a thin, sleek, wheel came out for those on bikes, it would obvioulsy be a lot lighter and alot more aerodynamic. but, youd need super strength materials. but, other than that designs out now can beat it. i think though a magnetic levitated bike wheel, which is theoretically possible, would be the better choice

    Reply
11. 

    Minh

    November 6, 2008

    Believe it or not, a local bicycle shop here in orange county, ca has that wear and tear bike in stock!!! I’m not sure if it’s for sale or not but it’s on display on the sales floor along side with all their other bikes, I did not see a price tag though. If youre interested in more details on it, feel free to email me.

    Reply
12. 

    romu

    January 16, 2009

    As far as I know, Franco Sbarro is the inventor of the hubless wheel. He owns the patent, and never sold it to anyone.

    Reply
13. 

    SteveB

    February 11, 2009

    I actually bought a wear and tear black hole recently after looking for it for some time. Interesting, but not something revolutionary. It’s actually 4 rollers, 3 lower and a moveable upper one to tension everything. The rim is actually 2 rims stacked and held together by carbon fiber. Which makes rom for the valve stem. It’s very noisy, and at the moment seems to have quite a lot of drag due to having 4 rollers and 8 bearings. It’s 650C and about the same weight as a regular fork and wheel. Slick looking, very trick in its day, but not a great wheel.

    Reply
14. 

    Anonymous

    November 9, 2009

    54, are you this critical with everything, or just having a bad day?

    Yes we are art students, but we can convey our ideas on paper without autocad. We can do the research that is necessary of implementing next steps. We can design a product that not only works, but looks good and interacts with people in a positive way.

    If we knew everything, we would be going to school for 8 years. We are students, we learn as we go, we aren't experts by any means. This design is beautiful and expresses itself as such. Criticisms are great, but don't pick apart our major because you are a pessimistic man who wants to keep product design strictly for engineers.

    Reply
15. More hubless wheels and other links | Bicycle Design

    February 28, 2010

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17. A hubless wheel from the past: The Black Hole | Bicycle Design

    March 16, 2010

    […] better time to revisit a couple of old posts about a hubless wheel, which (I believe) actually went into production for a short time in the mid […]

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